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	<title>Comments on: Mate - The Good, the Bad and the Ugly</title>
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	<link>http://www.techper.net/2008/09/10/mate-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/</link>
	<description>About Technology in My Life</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 03:55:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Software Pills » Se busca sustituto de Cairngorm</title>
		<link>http://www.techper.net/2008/09/10/mate-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/#comment-3858</link>
		<dc:creator>Software Pills » Se busca sustituto de Cairngorm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 09:09:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techper.net/?p=127#comment-3858</guid>
		<description>[...] Un art&#237;culo que destaca sus puntos d&#233;biles. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Un art&#237;culo que destaca sus puntos d&#233;biles. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: boulder_lingie</title>
		<link>http://www.techper.net/2008/09/10/mate-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/#comment-3094</link>
		<dc:creator>boulder_lingie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 17:20:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techper.net/?p=127#comment-3094</guid>
		<description>Interesting post. I like puremvc (the framework suits me, and I like the community support &#38; excellent docs).  Mate has me interested, though, because it seems like it might be easier / quicker to use.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting post. I like puremvc (the framework suits me, and I like the community support &amp; excellent docs).  Mate has me interested, though, because it seems like it might be easier / quicker to use.</p>
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		<title>By: Sönke Rohde &#187; Swiz Framework - Brutally Simple</title>
		<link>http://www.techper.net/2008/09/10/mate-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/#comment-2998</link>
		<dc:creator>Sönke Rohde &#187; Swiz Framework - Brutally Simple</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:59:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techper.net/?p=127#comment-2998</guid>
		<description>[...] the common problems are and how to solve them. I pretty much share the dislike of coding in XML blogged by Olesen and discussed on InfoQ. Another review of Mate is done by Flash Magazine and the structure is [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the common problems are and how to solve them. I pretty much share the dislike of coding in XML blogged by Olesen and discussed on InfoQ. Another review of Mate is done by Flash Magazine and the structure is [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Darren</title>
		<link>http://www.techper.net/2008/09/10/mate-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/#comment-2666</link>
		<dc:creator>Darren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 23:30:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techper.net/?p=127#comment-2666</guid>
		<description>@cease

I think Cairngorm has it's faults but I find that most criticisms are generally based an OOP-purist arguments and not based on how the framework fails to serve it's purpose in the real world. For example, there is a lot of talk about it's incompatibility with unit testing as it's so easy to reference ModelLocator in every component. But you don't have to do that - a smarter way is to only reference ModelLocator in your top-level views (which in my case are modules) and inject the model, or pieces of it, down the line into lower-level components.

My other issue with Cairngorm was the lack of a good event notification system for views but the Universal Mind Extensions for Cairngorm seem to help with this and other issues.

Lastly, you might like to use Mediators to keep your views 'dumb'. This isn't prescribed by the Cairngorm framework but it's easy to implement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@cease</p>
<p>I think Cairngorm has it&#8217;s faults but I find that most criticisms are generally based an OOP-purist arguments and not based on how the framework fails to serve it&#8217;s purpose in the real world. For example, there is a lot of talk about it&#8217;s incompatibility with unit testing as it&#8217;s so easy to reference ModelLocator in every component. But you don&#8217;t have to do that - a smarter way is to only reference ModelLocator in your top-level views (which in my case are modules) and inject the model, or pieces of it, down the line into lower-level components.</p>
<p>My other issue with Cairngorm was the lack of a good event notification system for views but the Universal Mind Extensions for Cairngorm seem to help with this and other issues.</p>
<p>Lastly, you might like to use Mediators to keep your views &#8216;dumb&#8217;. This isn&#8217;t prescribed by the Cairngorm framework but it&#8217;s easy to implement.</p>
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		<title>By: polesen</title>
		<link>http://www.techper.net/2008/09/10/mate-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/#comment-2657</link>
		<dc:creator>polesen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 18:29:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techper.net/?p=127#comment-2657</guid>
		<description>@cease:

I would love to do a writeup, but it is time consuming, and I am not sure I have that time currently. I might come out with something about puremvc soon, as I have been using it for some time now, and surely has something to say about it.

Until then, you might want to read my &lt;a href="http://www.techper.net/2008/06/09/patterns-of-gui-architecture-in-cairngorm-and-puremvc/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Patterns of GUI Architecture in Cairngorm and PureMVC&lt;/a&gt; post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@cease:</p>
<p>I would love to do a writeup, but it is time consuming, and I am not sure I have that time currently. I might come out with something about puremvc soon, as I have been using it for some time now, and surely has something to say about it.</p>
<p>Until then, you might want to read my <a href="http://www.techper.net/2008/06/09/patterns-of-gui-architecture-in-cairngorm-and-puremvc/" rel="nofollow">Patterns of GUI Architecture in Cairngorm and PureMVC</a> post.</p>
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		<title>By: polesen</title>
		<link>http://www.techper.net/2008/09/10/mate-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/#comment-2656</link>
		<dc:creator>polesen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 18:26:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techper.net/?p=127#comment-2656</guid>
		<description>@John Blanco:

You are right, in that one should expect more than 5 minutes, until the framework has been understood. And as I also wrote, I might be wrong here. Still, one should only have to know the concepts on how the framework works, and hereby be able to use it. One should &lt;em&gt;not&lt;/em&gt; have to know the intricate details, to be able to use it. If you tell me, that once I know Mate better, all will be clear, I trust you to be right. I have not found the EventMap xml to be intuitive yet.

But, when you write:

&lt;blockquote&gt;
Also, you don’t have to use the HTTPServiceInvoker stuff if you don’t like coding in the XML. It’s your choice based on your project. You could use nothing but MethodInvoker and be able to easily imitate Cairngorm’s Command and PureMVC’s Command and Mediator.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

somehow I just knew that comment would come in. And it is a valid one, cause you are right, I could just make the EventMap a simple dispatcher to some real as3 code.

BUT: The EventMap is a very important part and concept of Mate. A large part of the framework is centered around the EventMap. It is thought of to be the place to use for this. This is the &lt;em&gt;intention&lt;/em&gt; of the framework. If one is to start using Mate, one should also buy into the concept of the EventMap. It is an important area of Mate, where it think it helps you. And it might. I just doubt it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@John Blanco:</p>
<p>You are right, in that one should expect more than 5 minutes, until the framework has been understood. And as I also wrote, I might be wrong here. Still, one should only have to know the concepts on how the framework works, and hereby be able to use it. One should <em>not</em> have to know the intricate details, to be able to use it. If you tell me, that once I know Mate better, all will be clear, I trust you to be right. I have not found the EventMap xml to be intuitive yet.</p>
<p>But, when you write:</p>
<blockquote><p>
Also, you don’t have to use the HTTPServiceInvoker stuff if you don’t like coding in the XML. It’s your choice based on your project. You could use nothing but MethodInvoker and be able to easily imitate Cairngorm’s Command and PureMVC’s Command and Mediator.
</p></blockquote>
<p>somehow I just knew that comment would come in. And it is a valid one, cause you are right, I could just make the EventMap a simple dispatcher to some real as3 code.</p>
<p>BUT: The EventMap is a very important part and concept of Mate. A large part of the framework is centered around the EventMap. It is thought of to be the place to use for this. This is the <em>intention</em> of the framework. If one is to start using Mate, one should also buy into the concept of the EventMap. It is an important area of Mate, where it think it helps you. And it might. I just doubt it.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: cease</title>
		<link>http://www.techper.net/2008/09/10/mate-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/#comment-2655</link>
		<dc:creator>cease</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 17:45:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techper.net/?p=127#comment-2655</guid>
		<description>Can you provide a write up of which flex framework you like the best, and maybe more comparisons between the three.  I've been struggling to figure out which framework is the best at this point.  I've heard nothing but complaints out of the cairngorm.  I have been hearing a lot of good things about mate, actually this is one of the first, I read with negatives.  Also puremvc, from a java developer standpoint seems to make sense.. but seems to be the biggest beast to handle out of the 3.  thanks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can you provide a write up of which flex framework you like the best, and maybe more comparisons between the three.  I&#8217;ve been struggling to figure out which framework is the best at this point.  I&#8217;ve heard nothing but complaints out of the cairngorm.  I have been hearing a lot of good things about mate, actually this is one of the first, I read with negatives.  Also puremvc, from a java developer standpoint seems to make sense.. but seems to be the biggest beast to handle out of the 3.  thanks</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: John Blanco</title>
		<link>http://www.techper.net/2008/09/10/mate-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/#comment-2653</link>
		<dc:creator>John Blanco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 15:49:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techper.net/?p=127#comment-2653</guid>
		<description>I disagree on your "magic" point.  Mate is a framework and therefore implying that it should somehow be understandable within 5 minutes doesn't seem fair.

Also, you don't have to use the HTTPServiceInvoker stuff if you don't like coding in the XML.  It's your choice based on your project. You could use nothing but MethodInvoker and be able to easily imitate Cairngorm's Command and PureMVC's Command and Mediator.

If you want to use the deeper stuff, it's your choice.  It's not complex at all.  Learning a little more about Mate will pay off in spades.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree on your &#8220;magic&#8221; point.  Mate is a framework and therefore implying that it should somehow be understandable within 5 minutes doesn&#8217;t seem fair.</p>
<p>Also, you don&#8217;t have to use the HTTPServiceInvoker stuff if you don&#8217;t like coding in the XML.  It&#8217;s your choice based on your project. You could use nothing but MethodInvoker and be able to easily imitate Cairngorm&#8217;s Command and PureMVC&#8217;s Command and Mediator.</p>
<p>If you want to use the deeper stuff, it&#8217;s your choice.  It&#8217;s not complex at all.  Learning a little more about Mate will pay off in spades.</p>
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		<title>By: Bjorn Schultheiss</title>
		<link>http://www.techper.net/2008/09/10/mate-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/#comment-2634</link>
		<dc:creator>Bjorn Schultheiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:03:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techper.net/?p=127#comment-2634</guid>
		<description>With regards to the createInstance() I still have found a better way yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With regards to the createInstance() I still have found a better way yet.</p>
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